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A blog for her friends to check that she's still alive, when she's been missing for a while, and what she's whinging about now.
My Profile.
Sunday, May 08, 2005
Oh...
I'm catching up with e-mail and finally made it onto Kindly Ones. I found these comments:
followed by
I was away in Dorset when the incident this pertains to blew. Since then I've been firstly floating ethereally through a Beltane forest induced state of spiritual bliss; busy at work; then doing dissertation, so I haven't had chance to read all of the ins and outs of it. I skimmed it at the time, realized there was no-one hurting who couldn't look after themself and anything needful was already done. But didn't read through everything properly.
The person saying that was someone whose views I have occasionally shared, while other times totally disagreed with.
That hurt.
I work so bloody hard on the Grove. I'm often up until the early hours feeling like the last lines of 'Lazarus' were written for me and the other Mods:
And any who thinks that that is hyperbole should see our inboxes on an average day. Additionally, I sit for hours html-ing away, that the achievements of Grovers would get some publicity, that browsers might buy their wares and those passed over won't be forgotten. All five of us read every single solitary post, so that no-one will ever feel that their posts were missed and their voice not heard. We try so hard to create a welcome, a safe sanctuary just to learn about Paganism and be part of a Pagan community, and to ensure that no-one ever feels themselves outside some bloody clique.
I don't begrudge a second of it. I'm no saint. None of us are. I know that it's not just the mods who get this and the Grove wouldn't be what it is without the members. I'm not afraid of negative criticism, in fact it's welcomed because without knowing what is wrong, it can't be put right.
But to have it just dismissed like this and to be left with the feeling that our carefully crafted sanctuary, maintained through no few battle-scars of our own, is viewed by 'several' Grovers as sanitized crap. Does that mean that two years of bloody hard work on my part (three years on the part of Cerr and Anna) wasn't worth it? And to be told that by someone I'd got pegged as a friend?
Yes, it hurts. I understand a little better now why Cerr felt the need to ban this individual. She's taken the flak for far longer than I have. Anyone who wants to scream 'fluffy' should take their turn at being a WG or KO mod for five minutes, then see how long they still hold that opinion.
Part of me wants to just give up now. Tell Cerr, sorry cariad, this amount of blood, sweat and tears just isn't worth it. But that's never been my way. I learned about torture and joined Amnesty International. That's my way. I learned a long time ago that it 'takes great control to be angry', just as Joolz said. I still believe in what we do there and if that makes me fluffy, then so be it. Name-calling is always the last refuge of those who have run out of defendable arguments and so I've found whenever I hear the words 'fluffy Wiccan'. I look at those spouting such sentiments with pity, because they've reached the end of their imagination.
To those 'fearing reprisals' on the Grove, write to me mab@witchgrove.org. Please don't be afraid. You would never believe the knocks each Mod takes in secret for you, we're not about to deliver one for your insecurity. We're neither Messiahs nor monsters, just human beings trying to do our best; and I'd like to explain just why it is that we try to keep the deep waters of the Grove so calm.
yours
Mab
xxxxx
I have recieved several mails the last twenty-four hours supporting
me, telling me they don't want to repeat their support publicly (in
the grove), "because they fear repraisals".
followed by
Well, I am not really attached to "the grove" like many of the
others, so I am not afraid to speak my mind.
I was away in Dorset when the incident this pertains to blew. Since then I've been firstly floating ethereally through a Beltane forest induced state of spiritual bliss; busy at work; then doing dissertation, so I haven't had chance to read all of the ins and outs of it. I skimmed it at the time, realized there was no-one hurting who couldn't look after themself and anything needful was already done. But didn't read through everything properly.
The person saying that was someone whose views I have occasionally shared, while other times totally disagreed with.
That hurt.
I work so bloody hard on the Grove. I'm often up until the early hours feeling like the last lines of 'Lazarus' were written for me and the other Mods:
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
And any who thinks that that is hyperbole should see our inboxes on an average day. Additionally, I sit for hours html-ing away, that the achievements of Grovers would get some publicity, that browsers might buy their wares and those passed over won't be forgotten. All five of us read every single solitary post, so that no-one will ever feel that their posts were missed and their voice not heard. We try so hard to create a welcome, a safe sanctuary just to learn about Paganism and be part of a Pagan community, and to ensure that no-one ever feels themselves outside some bloody clique.
I don't begrudge a second of it. I'm no saint. None of us are. I know that it's not just the mods who get this and the Grove wouldn't be what it is without the members. I'm not afraid of negative criticism, in fact it's welcomed because without knowing what is wrong, it can't be put right.
But to have it just dismissed like this and to be left with the feeling that our carefully crafted sanctuary, maintained through no few battle-scars of our own, is viewed by 'several' Grovers as sanitized crap. Does that mean that two years of bloody hard work on my part (three years on the part of Cerr and Anna) wasn't worth it? And to be told that by someone I'd got pegged as a friend?
Yes, it hurts. I understand a little better now why Cerr felt the need to ban this individual. She's taken the flak for far longer than I have. Anyone who wants to scream 'fluffy' should take their turn at being a WG or KO mod for five minutes, then see how long they still hold that opinion.
Part of me wants to just give up now. Tell Cerr, sorry cariad, this amount of blood, sweat and tears just isn't worth it. But that's never been my way. I learned about torture and joined Amnesty International. That's my way. I learned a long time ago that it 'takes great control to be angry', just as Joolz said. I still believe in what we do there and if that makes me fluffy, then so be it. Name-calling is always the last refuge of those who have run out of defendable arguments and so I've found whenever I hear the words 'fluffy Wiccan'. I look at those spouting such sentiments with pity, because they've reached the end of their imagination.
To those 'fearing reprisals' on the Grove, write to me mab@witchgrove.org. Please don't be afraid. You would never believe the knocks each Mod takes in secret for you, we're not about to deliver one for your insecurity. We're neither Messiahs nor monsters, just human beings trying to do our best; and I'd like to explain just why it is that we try to keep the deep waters of the Grove so calm.
yours
Mab
xxxxx
Comments:
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I proudly call myself a fluffy pagan bunny if that means I speak my mind and have my own ideas and opinions and don't take the crap spewed by people that expect me to cow down to their way of thinking because it's 'their way or the highway'....and THAT is why I handed out carrots during that conversation.
Wanna carrot??
I love you Mab and all the Mods and I know from personal experience what you deal with and I know how hard it is to keep the waters calm. Don't you dare give up or I'll simply have to come over and spank you (wink)
all my heart.
Seren
Wanna carrot??
I love you Mab and all the Mods and I know from personal experience what you deal with and I know how hard it is to keep the waters calm. Don't you dare give up or I'll simply have to come over and spank you (wink)
all my heart.
Seren
# posted by 
: 11:15 pm
: 11:15 pm
*takes carrot and munches on it*
It's just disheartening, you know? I sometimes think that none of us should mention how much hard work goes into it, because it would sound a little like 'methinks the lady doth protest too much'. After all, we all volunteered for this and we could all back out at any time. By mentioning it, I know (in hindsight) that it can sometimes look like we're whinging just for sympathy, to cash in on any respect that we have got in order to paper over whatever cracks have just appeared. It also stops everything looking like a swan swimming - all grace and perfection on the top, while working away like a git underneath the water.
Then, on the other hand, I often go the opposite way in thinking that we really should show the workings out, so folk can transparently see how we arrived at the solutions we did. People love gossip and they'd love to know what goes on in the Mods Lounge and every detail of every battle fought.
Thing is, if we did that, then the safe sanctuary wouldn't exist anymore. It would negate everything we're fighting to protect.
Ignore me, it just took me wrong, that's all. I get tired and so sick of the same old accusations all the bloody time. I sometimes want to be the one coddled and allowed to rage, instead of the one trying to be the best priestess I can be. I don't keep it inside, folk do get it, but... you know...? I'm just whinging.
The thing about 'fluffy Wiccans' always gets me. I hadn't heard the phrase until last year, when it was levelled at me, then I asked about it on the Grove, found out and laughed. I thought it was funny.
But it's cropping up time and time again. Minerva Ravenwing had a great point, even supposing that a small minority of those called 'fluffy' actually were, insofar as the definition is fairly light-weight Pagans, so what? Haven't they a right to their own spirituality and path in whatever way they find it?
I probably find the 'better than them' attitude so irritating because I've recognized it in myself, though never over spirituality or religion. It's usually class and politics with me. We always find our own faults more irritating than those of others.
But the thing about 'fluffy Wiccans' is that, as an argument, it's designed simply to intimidate the alleged fluffy into shutting up. People are so busy trying to prove that they aren't fluffy, that they get distracted from the point under discussion. This is probably the whole reasoning, because the accuser has run out of arguments to support their own position.
You know what it REALLY reminds me of? That bloke who accused me of being racist, when I was about 20, and me so eager to prove that I wasn't racist that I entered his room and he locked me in it. It took all the mental agility that I had not to be raped and that's only because he couldn't get it up.
Ok, I'm going to stop whinging now and stop feeling hurt about this. I'm probably blowing it out of all proportion, but I can see why the others didn't want me reading it all last Monday.
yours
Mab
xxxxx
It's just disheartening, you know? I sometimes think that none of us should mention how much hard work goes into it, because it would sound a little like 'methinks the lady doth protest too much'. After all, we all volunteered for this and we could all back out at any time. By mentioning it, I know (in hindsight) that it can sometimes look like we're whinging just for sympathy, to cash in on any respect that we have got in order to paper over whatever cracks have just appeared. It also stops everything looking like a swan swimming - all grace and perfection on the top, while working away like a git underneath the water.
Then, on the other hand, I often go the opposite way in thinking that we really should show the workings out, so folk can transparently see how we arrived at the solutions we did. People love gossip and they'd love to know what goes on in the Mods Lounge and every detail of every battle fought.
Thing is, if we did that, then the safe sanctuary wouldn't exist anymore. It would negate everything we're fighting to protect.
Ignore me, it just took me wrong, that's all. I get tired and so sick of the same old accusations all the bloody time. I sometimes want to be the one coddled and allowed to rage, instead of the one trying to be the best priestess I can be. I don't keep it inside, folk do get it, but... you know...? I'm just whinging.
The thing about 'fluffy Wiccans' always gets me. I hadn't heard the phrase until last year, when it was levelled at me, then I asked about it on the Grove, found out and laughed. I thought it was funny.
But it's cropping up time and time again. Minerva Ravenwing had a great point, even supposing that a small minority of those called 'fluffy' actually were, insofar as the definition is fairly light-weight Pagans, so what? Haven't they a right to their own spirituality and path in whatever way they find it?
I probably find the 'better than them' attitude so irritating because I've recognized it in myself, though never over spirituality or religion. It's usually class and politics with me. We always find our own faults more irritating than those of others.
But the thing about 'fluffy Wiccans' is that, as an argument, it's designed simply to intimidate the alleged fluffy into shutting up. People are so busy trying to prove that they aren't fluffy, that they get distracted from the point under discussion. This is probably the whole reasoning, because the accuser has run out of arguments to support their own position.
You know what it REALLY reminds me of? That bloke who accused me of being racist, when I was about 20, and me so eager to prove that I wasn't racist that I entered his room and he locked me in it. It took all the mental agility that I had not to be raped and that's only because he couldn't get it up.
Ok, I'm going to stop whinging now and stop feeling hurt about this. I'm probably blowing it out of all proportion, but I can see why the others didn't want me reading it all last Monday.
yours
Mab
xxxxx
I've just realized how my blog might sound.
I don't begrudge helping people or my bulging inbox, because these people are my friends and they'd ALL do the same for me. What I meant was that being a WG mod has meant that I'm more high-profile there than, perhaps, I would have been as a member. I didn't mean it as a duty thing rather than a friend thing.
Hope that made more sense. I'm tired and wilting now, so I'm abed.
yours
Mab
xxxxx
I don't begrudge helping people or my bulging inbox, because these people are my friends and they'd ALL do the same for me. What I meant was that being a WG mod has meant that I'm more high-profile there than, perhaps, I would have been as a member. I didn't mean it as a duty thing rather than a friend thing.
Hope that made more sense. I'm tired and wilting now, so I'm abed.
yours
Mab
xxxxx
I just want to say that I totally apreciate all that you all do, I can well imagine how hard it is. I have never felt that I couldnt say anything for fear of reprisals I feel safe there and know I can say how I feel, I may not always say some things because I think of other peoples feelings and how they will feel, which is to me being part of a grown up. I have noticed something over the last year this fluffie thing, its bollocks, I thought pagans allowed others to have their own beliefs, for me being a pagan is about respecting anothers belief not condeming it, some traditions are older than others but they were all new once, man has evolved from apes, perhaps beliefs need to too, what is right for one is not always right for another, its sad to see that pagans must condem another pagan for what they belive, we must all find our own way there, what does it matter how we get there as long as we get there, nobody on this earth knows without a shadow of a doubt what is out there, I personally believe it is one and the same we just have to find the way there for us, nobody has the right to say I am wrong, as I do not have the right to say they are wrong, it is this attitude that causes wars, and suffereing that many religions have gone through over the years. It comes across to me that these people are insecure in their own beliefs to have to condem or ridicule what another believes in, its very very sad, how boring their lives must be, if this is all they can do. I suppose I can be described as fluffie, wow that means I am well popular cause they are all talking about me, I am actually the topic of someones conversation, they have actually taken the time to think about this and speak about me, doesnt it show I have made an impact. So come on everyone just let others practice what they want, the Grove is a safe and friendly place to be, you can ask questions and because of the variety of beliefs get a varied response to what you want to know, you are getting it from all angles, much better than being dictated to and being told what to think, I am an individual I do and think what I want, the Grove lets you be that, and dont any of you dare step out of this, Shonna has given us a wonderful place to meet where we can luagh and cry, get support and help. I for one raise my glass to the five of you and say keep up the good work, and to those who think otherwise, I feel great pity for you.
Aud xxx
Aud xxx
# posted by : 1:26 am
: 1:26 am
You know even if people agreed with him that wasn't the problem. The problem was that he insisted on speaking badly of people in a generalized way. That broad sweep of his brush even touched all the tolerant and mystic christians. I know some very strong mystics and their beliefs are a bit different than the average christian but they still call themselves christians. Those people are not enemies.
I don't mind people not trusting christians. It's their feelings and that's fine. I don't think that telling people their stupid because they don't believe as you do is right. There are ways to let someone you know disagree.
Plus being in the mod lounge sometimes it gets stinky.... remember when Anna brought in that stinky cheese and hide it behind the curtain? Or when Roxanne refused to bath... lol She is such a rebel. Oh and we never did figure out who drop the stink bomb down the chimney... We won't even talk about the bean eating incident. lol We won't have beans for supper again when we have to mod all night. hehe
I don't mind people not trusting christians. It's their feelings and that's fine. I don't think that telling people their stupid because they don't believe as you do is right. There are ways to let someone you know disagree.
Plus being in the mod lounge sometimes it gets stinky.... remember when Anna brought in that stinky cheese and hide it behind the curtain? Or when Roxanne refused to bath... lol She is such a rebel. Oh and we never did figure out who drop the stink bomb down the chimney... We won't even talk about the bean eating incident. lol We won't have beans for supper again when we have to mod all night. hehe
We can't please everyone and sometimes someone gets hurt. We try and try not to let people get hurt but it happens.
We just have to continue to make the list a safe place and deal with the roadbumps as they come.
Throwing in the towel would be quitting and I won't allow it.
Anna
We just have to continue to make the list a safe place and deal with the roadbumps as they come.
Throwing in the towel would be quitting and I won't allow it.
Anna
# posted by : 3:09 am
: 3:09 am
Cariad,
Three words: Consider. The. Source.
The bloke in question lacks something fundamental that you have - before you start seeing yourself too much in his words or in him, try to remember this: You have empathy and consideration for others - I know, I've seen it first hand in you.
Brianne's right to have handed carrots out during that conversation - basically he was calling everyone fluffy who doesn't see things the way he sees them - and you know, that's SUCH a shame because in shutting himself off he's refusing to learn more WITH others - growing, evolving, expanding as a person and as a Pagan......this is something else I"ve seen you do over the past few years - and yes, Johnny, oh Gods yes I do know how disheartening it is - but the upswings far outweigh the wankers who try so hard to drag us down -
We can do one of two things: Choose to let them drag us down and give them the power over us in that, or we can choose to refuse. We can refuse to let them affect us and instead continue to open ourselves to new learnings, new beliefs, new possibility.
We do deal with some really awful shit - you know, you and the others helped me deal when under attack - you've experienced more than your fair share as well - I guess I've always chosen to not give them the power over me - and instead to continue with what I feel is an important thing - the Grove and what it stands for - the day "they" push me out of the Grove for any reason beyond reasons of my own is the day I hang up my Pentacle.....
*hugs*
Don't hang yours up, cariad fi, there's more work to be done still....and NOT alone by any means.
XOXOXO
Shonna
Three words: Consider. The. Source.
The bloke in question lacks something fundamental that you have - before you start seeing yourself too much in his words or in him, try to remember this: You have empathy and consideration for others - I know, I've seen it first hand in you.
Brianne's right to have handed carrots out during that conversation - basically he was calling everyone fluffy who doesn't see things the way he sees them - and you know, that's SUCH a shame because in shutting himself off he's refusing to learn more WITH others - growing, evolving, expanding as a person and as a Pagan......this is something else I"ve seen you do over the past few years - and yes, Johnny, oh Gods yes I do know how disheartening it is - but the upswings far outweigh the wankers who try so hard to drag us down -
We can do one of two things: Choose to let them drag us down and give them the power over us in that, or we can choose to refuse. We can refuse to let them affect us and instead continue to open ourselves to new learnings, new beliefs, new possibility.
We do deal with some really awful shit - you know, you and the others helped me deal when under attack - you've experienced more than your fair share as well - I guess I've always chosen to not give them the power over me - and instead to continue with what I feel is an important thing - the Grove and what it stands for - the day "they" push me out of the Grove for any reason beyond reasons of my own is the day I hang up my Pentacle.....
*hugs*
Don't hang yours up, cariad fi, there's more work to be done still....and NOT alone by any means.
XOXOXO
Shonna
There, There [ patting Mab on the back ] I think you have all done a wonderful job. Even if you don't think you should be congratulated for it, I do.
Please remember that sometimes ppl say things, they later wish they hadn't. And no way can we all agree on the same thing all the time.
Please remember that sometimes ppl say things, they later wish they hadn't. And no way can we all agree on the same thing all the time.
# posted by : 3:23 am
: 3:23 am
Aud -
The idea of you being a fluffy (by anyone's definition) really puts a smile on my face. Your compassion and humour does not equate light-weight Paganism. I've seen first-hand the depth of your considerations on various issues concerning Wicca; I've seen how far you interrogate your own philosophy, in order to see how strong it is. But I dare anyone to say that you haven't a hard edge when needful. Your religion is not a fashion accessory with you. If it was, I would never have initiated you.
Thank you for your support of myself, the other Mods and the Grove. I know I could count on you to slap me down to size, if it was needful. You aren't and never will be a sycophant, so your take on this holds a lot of weight with me. Thank you for taking the time to express it.
Georgia -
The further I go, the more that I realize that adherring to any religion (or no religion) doesn't automatically make you either the mystic or necessarily wise. It's the individual, not the path they walk. Laurie wrote in the week that people often mistake the map for the path itself and that rang so true with me.
Ok, I'll admit to dropping the stink bomb. But I was fumigating the place at the time, I just picked up the wrong capsule.
Anna -
I won't throw in the towel. It's like MacBeth,
'I am in blood, step'd in so far,
That should I wade no more,
Returning were as tedious
As to go o'er...'
I've worked too damn hard at this, we all have, that even if I do get disheartened then that turns into fuel for the flame. I'm not dedicated to the Morrighan for nothing.
Shonna -
You are right, the pros do outweigh the cons. If they didn't, I'd like to say that I'd have left ages ago, but I know me and I would have just worked that bit harder in trying to put it right again. My heart, mind and soul are in this. I'm there for the duration, because I believe in it. Does that make me blinkered and/or arrogant? I don't think so, because the positive feedback is there too. I've had e-mails from folk telling me that they wouldn't be alive now or, at least, wouldn't be sane, if they hadn't had the Grove there at a certain dark moment in time.
And yes, I have grown, mightily, over the time I've been there. Emotionally and in knowledge; I doubt that makes me any wiser than the next person, but it's given me a lot more faith in myself.
Anon -
Thank you. Yes, congratulations do embarrass me, but give me a warm glow at the same time. I'm working on that one! LOL
As for agreement, I would be bored stupid if people did agree with each other all of the time. If we take this one into Kindly Ones, then it's downright counter-productive if we did agree with each other. The learning comes from consideration of different points of view and Kindly Ones works best when it is an argument. But not lack of consideration and not flaming. I was hurt badly last night when I read that total disregard of all mine and other's hard work; and I could have cried for Jami, in how she was attacked. That's not a difference of opinion, that's someone putting the boot in hard on whatever soft spot they can find. That's not arguing a point, that's... bullying, I suppose. It might be argued that neither the mods or Jami are weak victims, as we can all look after ourselves, but that isn't the point. I'm not there to be someone's whipping-boy.
Thank you all for your comments. I'm going to chew on Seren's carrot and stop afretting on it now.
The idea of you being a fluffy (by anyone's definition) really puts a smile on my face. Your compassion and humour does not equate light-weight Paganism. I've seen first-hand the depth of your considerations on various issues concerning Wicca; I've seen how far you interrogate your own philosophy, in order to see how strong it is. But I dare anyone to say that you haven't a hard edge when needful. Your religion is not a fashion accessory with you. If it was, I would never have initiated you.
Thank you for your support of myself, the other Mods and the Grove. I know I could count on you to slap me down to size, if it was needful. You aren't and never will be a sycophant, so your take on this holds a lot of weight with me. Thank you for taking the time to express it.
Georgia -
The further I go, the more that I realize that adherring to any religion (or no religion) doesn't automatically make you either the mystic or necessarily wise. It's the individual, not the path they walk. Laurie wrote in the week that people often mistake the map for the path itself and that rang so true with me.
Ok, I'll admit to dropping the stink bomb. But I was fumigating the place at the time, I just picked up the wrong capsule.
Anna -
I won't throw in the towel. It's like MacBeth,
'I am in blood, step'd in so far,
That should I wade no more,
Returning were as tedious
As to go o'er...'
I've worked too damn hard at this, we all have, that even if I do get disheartened then that turns into fuel for the flame. I'm not dedicated to the Morrighan for nothing.
Shonna -
You are right, the pros do outweigh the cons. If they didn't, I'd like to say that I'd have left ages ago, but I know me and I would have just worked that bit harder in trying to put it right again. My heart, mind and soul are in this. I'm there for the duration, because I believe in it. Does that make me blinkered and/or arrogant? I don't think so, because the positive feedback is there too. I've had e-mails from folk telling me that they wouldn't be alive now or, at least, wouldn't be sane, if they hadn't had the Grove there at a certain dark moment in time.
And yes, I have grown, mightily, over the time I've been there. Emotionally and in knowledge; I doubt that makes me any wiser than the next person, but it's given me a lot more faith in myself.
Anon -
Thank you. Yes, congratulations do embarrass me, but give me a warm glow at the same time. I'm working on that one! LOL
As for agreement, I would be bored stupid if people did agree with each other all of the time. If we take this one into Kindly Ones, then it's downright counter-productive if we did agree with each other. The learning comes from consideration of different points of view and Kindly Ones works best when it is an argument. But not lack of consideration and not flaming. I was hurt badly last night when I read that total disregard of all mine and other's hard work; and I could have cried for Jami, in how she was attacked. That's not a difference of opinion, that's someone putting the boot in hard on whatever soft spot they can find. That's not arguing a point, that's... bullying, I suppose. It might be argued that neither the mods or Jami are weak victims, as we can all look after ourselves, but that isn't the point. I'm not there to be someone's whipping-boy.
Thank you all for your comments. I'm going to chew on Seren's carrot and stop afretting on it now.
I don't see any of the Grove as being fluffy,except that some of you are fluffy(femme)girls. Hehehe I have always been shy and now with the fact that I'm sharing me with the Grove is kinda scary, but I know it's also a good thing. I value the job that all of you do as Mod's and your friendship as well.
I'm sure I missed most of the particulars of this one, but I must say that you and the other mods go through some major flames to keep WG what it is. And, that is a safe place for everyone to speak their mind, as long as it's done respectfully. The people who can't respect others are not the ones you want in the grove anyway. I can't even imagine the time you and Cerr and the others put into that list! It awes and amazes me, truly, that you all devote your ever-shrinking free hours to the list, for very little acknowledgement. I can't even keep up with the posts, but you all are in there slinging *every day*!! And if you weren't, the grove would have died a long time ago.
Blessings to you, and a big pat on the back. I have gotten more encouragement and support from you than is warranted (or returned), I know, and I appreciate it fully. I hope that in time I am able to repay it in some way!!!
Jodi *another fluffy Pagan, I'm sure*
Blessings to you, and a big pat on the back. I have gotten more encouragement and support from you than is warranted (or returned), I know, and I appreciate it fully. I hope that in time I am able to repay it in some way!!!
Jodi *another fluffy Pagan, I'm sure*
At the request of the person who made those comments on Kindly Ones, I'm including here the full e-mail text:
Generalisations, huh.
There were fourth reasons I didn't go deeper in the grove: One was
out of considerations for other viewpoints. The other was because I
wasn't allowed to. The third was that I quite simply assumed that
there weren't any pagan fluffy bunnies there.
But I was wrong. You create your own pleasant bubble of imposed
sensibilities and pretend that is the world.
The fourth is that I assumed, silly enough that the christian
majority's crimes against life, and the rest of humanity are well
known, and accepted as fact. I was evidently wrong there, too. In
short I expected better of you all.
I have to say, though that it can never be proven whether or not the
majority of christians are "good" or "bad". This is a matter of
conviction.
But what is clear is that there could never have been countless
genocides aroudn the world the last two thousand years if not the
majority of christians accepted it or even actively supported it.
A burning of a witch was a public spectacle.
When a ten-year old boy was accused of being a witch in Holland ten
years ago and accused of CAUSING the flood, the entire vilalge took
part in his execution.
I have recieved several mails the last twenty-four hours supporting
me, telling me they don't want to repeat their support publicly (in
the grove), "because they fear repraisals".
What does that say about you guys, Seren? Perhaps you are truly very
similar to christians???
Well, I am not really attached to "the grove" like many of the
others, so I am not afraid to speak my mind.
I wouldn't be anyway.
There is nothing you can do to me, except ganging up on me like you
have already done.
I'm quite used to that, and I can take it. Pour it on!
Amos
and also the links that he's off-list asked me to look at:
http://midnightfire.blogspot.com/2005/05/after-witchnight.html
http://www.midnight-fire.net/bookofshadows/ragingwitch.html
As the blog to which these comments are attached responds to this, I have nothing further to say at the moment.
yours
Mab
xxxxx
Post a Comment
Generalisations, huh.
There were fourth reasons I didn't go deeper in the grove: One was
out of considerations for other viewpoints. The other was because I
wasn't allowed to. The third was that I quite simply assumed that
there weren't any pagan fluffy bunnies there.
But I was wrong. You create your own pleasant bubble of imposed
sensibilities and pretend that is the world.
The fourth is that I assumed, silly enough that the christian
majority's crimes against life, and the rest of humanity are well
known, and accepted as fact. I was evidently wrong there, too. In
short I expected better of you all.
I have to say, though that it can never be proven whether or not the
majority of christians are "good" or "bad". This is a matter of
conviction.
But what is clear is that there could never have been countless
genocides aroudn the world the last two thousand years if not the
majority of christians accepted it or even actively supported it.
A burning of a witch was a public spectacle.
When a ten-year old boy was accused of being a witch in Holland ten
years ago and accused of CAUSING the flood, the entire vilalge took
part in his execution.
I have recieved several mails the last twenty-four hours supporting
me, telling me they don't want to repeat their support publicly (in
the grove), "because they fear repraisals".
What does that say about you guys, Seren? Perhaps you are truly very
similar to christians???
Well, I am not really attached to "the grove" like many of the
others, so I am not afraid to speak my mind.
I wouldn't be anyway.
There is nothing you can do to me, except ganging up on me like you
have already done.
I'm quite used to that, and I can take it. Pour it on!
Amos
and also the links that he's off-list asked me to look at:
http://midnightfire.blogspot.com/2005/05/after-witchnight.html
http://www.midnight-fire.net/bookofshadows/ragingwitch.html
As the blog to which these comments are attached responds to this, I have nothing further to say at the moment.
yours
Mab
xxxxx
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